CREATIVE WASTE

Raging grindcore metal from Saudi Arabia

Saudi Arabia has historically been an ultra-conservative religious country where women were not allowed to drive, cinemas were closed down, and the morality police arrested anyone accused of breaking the country’s ultra-conservative laws. As a result, until recently, heavy metal bands could not perform publicly in Saudi Arabia and some metal musicians were arrested. Today Saudi Arabia has changed. Women can drive, cinemas have reopened, and musicians from all genres are performing in public.

WMC sat down with Creative Waste, a grindcore band from Saudi Arabia, to talk about their journey. In September 2022, they became the first Saudi metal band to play in the UK when they performed at the Black Heart in London during the UK Deathfest. WMC interviewed frontman Fawaz Al-Shawaf (vocal/guitar) and his bandmates Talal (drums) and Abdulaziz (bass) after their UK debut.

Lina
Well, you guys just played at The Black Heart. That was your first show in the UK! First of all, how do you feel?

Abdulaziz
Amazing. It was beyond expectations.

Lina
What were you expecting?

Abdulaziz
I don't know. Less people maybe, it was packed! People were so energetic.

Fawaz
Honestly, I wasn't sure what to expect. I'm glad it turned out well.

Lina
And you got a mosh-pit going.

Fawaz
Yeah, yeah, two mosh-pits! When you get the crowd moving, that's when you know you have their approval.

Lina
I think you definitely got their approval. The thing is this is not your first international show. Let's go back: You’re a band from Saudi Arabia; how on earth did you play your first show? Where was that abroad?

Fawaz
Short answer. We didn't get much sleep and… the internet. We recorded our first demo with the help of Kamal, a good friend, he helped us record our first demo in late 2004, 2005. We put it out there on forums. So, by the time we released the other one, in 2007, which was called Cruelty Beyond Conception, it was visibly, like, way better, in terms of we were more mature. A guy named Brian, who liked our stuff, took notice of us, and he was connected. So, by the time we announced that we were finally coming to the U.S. in 2010, we just mentioned it to him and he booked us a show in New York.

Lina
So, you went to the U.S. for a short period of time? 

Fawaz
Talal was in the U.S. studying, so we went to visit him.

Talal
Our show in New York was in 2010. I’d just turned 20.

Fawaz
Brian is good friends with Ryan from Maryland Deathfest. He offered us a serious enough offer to play at Maryland Deathfest 2011, and from there, that's it. We met Jeremy from Obscene Extreme and we started the tour.

Talal
It was word of mouth. We did well in New York and this guy who brought us New York talked about us to another guy, and that guy wanted us, another guy came and saw the show and it just kept on spreading!

Lina
That's interesting. So basically, you did not have a label, you did not have a manager, no booking agent.

Fawaz
Just a lot of intuition and luck. Basically nothing. No, no plan, no, planning, we just put it out there on MySpace, whoever shows up. You know what? Let's go to New York on a whim. And suddenly now we have shows.

Lina
People still turned up.

Creative Waste
Yes! Yeah.

Lina
Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia, how was the situation?

Fawaz
At that time? It was underground. It was very underground. Yeah, it was hard. It was really hard. I mean, we had a short-lived underground scene from 2005 until 2008, and honestly, it was over to me by 2006. But it was dying in 2008. That was the nail in the coffin.

Talal
That’s when the restrictions really… it became more tough for everyone to make shows.

Fawaz
Because some people ruined it. Before, they [the authorities] were allowing us [the underground scene]. They know about us, but we're staying in our lane. But once we crossed over, everyone was dead afraid to do anything. So, the scene was completely dead! So, most of the bands disbanded. If not all.

Lina
… but you did not disband!

Fawaz
We did not!

Lina
What kept you going?

Fawaz
The way I see it. I always see the cup half full. Some bands, their drummer or a band member goes to university and that ends the band. I saw Talal, he was in the U.S. already: that's one less person I need to take to the U.S.

Abdulaziz
Fawaz takes advantage of every moment, every source, even the moment I joined the band I was going with them as a roadie, I wasn't intended to play. He was like “Isam is not coming. You know how to play bass and you can play. How about if I teach you the song”. That just happened. And I've been there since. He just goes with whatever resource he has, whatever possibility, whatever opportunity, he just takes it.

Lina
Speaking of which, I was reading a recent interview in which Fawaz said that when you were recording a few years ago, not recently but still in Saudi Arabia, you had to have a blanket over your head?

Fawaz
That's a true story. I was at Kamal’s place and Kamal says, “Man, it's too loud!” he goes away for a second, comes back and throws a blanket on me and was like OK, GO! So, they look at me. They see this blanket like a ghost screaming away. They're laughing, but it worked.

Lina
Do you still have to do that now? Because you’re working on a new album.

Fawaz
No. Thankfully. Luckily, now we have proper studios. We have studio 77. We have studios in Riyadh. So yeah, we have resources.

Lina
Can you compare the situation in Saudi Arabia now to what you experienced previously?

Fawaz
Different life entirely, like it feels like 100 years apart. 

Abdulaziz
Unexpectedly like 180-degree change.

Fawaz
Like the whole world went from illegal to legal, not even just legal, even encouraged!

Lina
Encouraged?! By the government? All kinds of music?

Fawaz
Yeah, well, they don't think of it that way, they just think of it as art, promoting art. Honestly, they're more open because, it's like they're still figuring it out. Surprisingly. Those are the opportunities where you can take risks because they still they don't think they know it all. That's why most genres die, because you have gatekeepers, they think they know at all. They kill the next potential new band. So, the way I see it, it's not perfect. There's a lot of problems, but at the same time there's a lot of opportunities because of that. It's an unpredictable, high risk, high reward type of deal, and I prefer it this way.

Lina
Can you actually sell your records in Saudi Arabia?

Fawaz
Yes. There is a way.

Lina
Does anyone scrutinise the lyrics?

Fawaz
They do... but honestly, surprisingly, they are more liberal than you think. Yeah, it's just that you need to phrase things in a certain way.

Lina
And how has this impacted your creative process?

Fawaz
Not much because we still do the same thing we did, because our intention is not to subscribe to a specific… I don't know. There's a reason why we're DIY, it's not like I'll never sign, the right opportunity hasn't presented itself, so I'm not going to compromise my artistic expression.

Lina
How about the business side of the story?

Abdulaziz
We’re not focusing on it.

Fawaz
I mean, we're getting opportunities, some bands pay money and they would still not get the slots we’re getting. The way I see it is value based, but we have a side project, which is “Assimilation”, that one is doing well on the business side.

Abdulaziz
I can say that's the one funding all of this.

Lina
So tell me a bit about that.

Fawaz
Assimilation. I called it Assimilation because we're kind of assimilating, but in our own way. It’s classical, neoclassical, metal instrumental. I don't know, the closest thing I could describe it like is “Prog/Malmsteen trying to be catchy”. We also play video game covers in our own orchestration, like on guitar. This is what funds us basically.

Talal
I mean, Assimilation is in Saudi Arabia, plays at events in Saudi Arabia.

Fawaz
Assimilation would not have been possible if not for Creative Waste. Creative waste was like at least 10 years old when we were approached to play commercially and I said we cannot play as Creative Waste because that would mean we’re changing completely. We need a new identity and show the other side, we're multidimensional. I don't only do metal. I do a lot of classical. Yeah, all types of music.

Lina
Going back to the business side of things. A lot of bands will want to find a label to sign them. Do you feel that you don't need that?

Fawaz
We don’t need that because labels only come for bands which are already established. I feel like when you want to negotiate, you have to be on equal terms but when you're just starting, what do you bring to the table? You're better off going to a bank, getting a loan, and funding your own thing. A label, they're going to own everything for forever… probably...

Talal
It’s going well for us this way.

Fawaz
But again, when we have negotiating power, that's when it's time to even consider it. With labels, it's not just about money, it’s restrictions: You can't say this, can't do that, you can’t look like this, can’t look like that. It has to be the right partnership.

Lina
Your latest show in Saudi Arabia was in March in 2022. I was trying to look at videos. It wasn't clear to me whether there were any women in the audience.

Fawaz
There was! There was a lot! Without abaya too! Some with abaya, some without.

Lina
Are there no restrictions?

Fawaz
Not even in the first official metal show! It was like, “Really?” Everyone's like, “What is this? We don't know what we're getting ourselves into”.

Abdulaziz
The situation flipped all of a sudden overnight in an unbelievable way. Until now we can't comprehend how the hell this happened. We never dreamed of this happening in Saudi Arabia, but it is happening.

Lina
Can we imagine maybe… one day, not too long in the future, having a metal festival in Saudi Arabia?

Talal
Yes. I believe, in the near future.

Fawaz
Heavy Arabia, Gigi from Heavy Arabia. She's trying to actually work on a metal festival. We’ve been in touch with them and it’s a good connection to have.

Lina
That's fantastic. So what's the plan for the new album?

Fawaz
No specific plan besides recording it, and releasing it really... I might fish around to find if there's a good way to release it, I don't know what's the best way to release it, because there's always something new, I have to see what it will be. I'm just going to record it, get it done, see how I feel about it.

Lina
You don’t have a timeline for releasing it?

Fawaz
No, this is the beauty of doing your own thing. I will say this. I am motivated when I know there's something in it. Like, if there's a reason to put it out, I mean, the songs are pretty much written. I just need to finish the lyrics basically and record it.

Abdulaziz
I think this album will expand our fan base. More people will be able to digest, comprehend, and understand it.

Talal
I mean, it's very different from what you heard today.

Abdulaziz
The way I see it, it's going to be revolutionary.

Talal
To us it feels completely new.

Fawaz
I reached a point where I had to suppress myself and my creativity, but because I'm constantly always challenging myself on everything I do.

Talal
He really pushed it with this album.

Fawaz
I was suppressing myself.

Lina
Suppressing yourself for what? To fit in a specific genre?

Fawaz
Yes, it wasn't very conscious. The suppression was half conscious. Then I woke up one day and decided to change. Also, another part was, where am I going to find a guitarist that can play this, so other factors as well. We were notorious for not retaining guitarists. Then I'm like; screw this, I'm committing to this, I'm pushing it, I'm not putting myself down, love it or hate it. The first and foremost reason why we do this, remembering why you want to do this, is because we want to do something we love. I feel like I expressed myself enough in that way. I think 20 years is enough to play the style we did. I feel like I don't have anything more to explore. So it became like, yeah, I'm not interested. So, in order to stay interested…

Tala
We came up with this hybrid style.

Abdulaziz
Hopefully it’s going to be amazing, everything in it.

Lina
There is no need to label it.

Fawaz
Yeah, that's the thing. Like if it was up to me, just extreme metal or whatever.

Lina
When people hear you’re from Saudi Arabia, do they still kind of… get surprised?

Fawaz
Yeah, just now, I was trying to find a guy called Peter who came to our Black Heart show, he said: “You guys were the best band in the whole fest and like and you're from SAUDI!!! *Mimics mind blown*”.

Abdulaziz
Yeah, nothing less than admiration. They respected us.  

Fawaz
That's why I had to look for him because… those words meant a lot to me. I can tell when someone is just being nice, that guy really liked it. He didn't need to come up to me. 

Talal
No one is going to trouble themselves by going to the band and tell them you had a good show unless they meant it.

Fawaz
That’s what I love. I love our fans.

Abdulaziz
It’s what keeps us going.

Talal
They told us in Gdansk, Poland, that they're a tough crowd, they don't move. But we got a mosh-pit there. That's what they said about Houston and we got them moving. It's really good getting that feedback from people.

Fawaz
One of my favourite places to play is the Czech Republic. I feel like when we were there we were at home. Like we get recognized and everything.

Lina
Well, maybe you can play some festivals there next…

Fawaz
Germany too! Hell, yeah. We're actually planning on touring as soon as we're done with this Assimilation gig, and we get the album going, we get the rest of the payment so we can start touring. 

Talal
But not until the release of the album. So that's the tour material, you know.

Fawaz
So we have a reason to do it.

• Check out Creative Waste here.